-rb

[Rising_Dusk]

So I wanted to spur this topic up again in its own thingy rather than that convoluted other thread. My belief in rebalance is that it's gay as shit because you get shoved onto a team that you haven't spent any money on and you may not work well at all with. I figured out a solution for that, though. In the same way you type -rm to vote for a rematch, you type -rb to rebalance the teams. The thing is that -rb works differently, it only rebalances the instant you type -rb, and it will only rebalance those that type -rb.

So for instance, it's 6v4. Player Joe_Schmoe on the 4 player team types -rb, nothing happens. Player Rick_Richi on the 6 player team types -rb and he moves over to the 4 person team. It is now a 5v5 game. This requires that people don't want to be gay, and it really supports private games more than public ones since most pubbies just want to obliterate and don't care if the enemy is outnumbered. However, the nice thing about this method is that you can't b*tch since you do it to yourself. You have no right to complain if you picked to balance the teams by shoving yourself on the other one. You should be hailed a hero for such nobility, and thus I'd probably give you a gold reward or something.

The main problem that remains, though, is that teams get mixed. I could force a player to reselect a hero but that's a bit ridiculous and unconventional, even if I allowed them to start at the same level they were before with the same items. You just don't buy the same items for every hero and you might not get many options, it's impractical. The alternate solution is to let the teams be mixed and have Vela with Arro Kree or whatever. Now certain people within the community have already made it crystal clear that they'd disown me for such a travesty against my story, but I really don't know -- It's such a beneficial thing that could be added to the map. And if I allow this, what says I can't allow -rr? I mean, if I did -rr, it wouldn't be something you start the game with, you'd have to vote for it much like -rm, and it would only take effect upon the next rematch, but still.

What do you all think? Gogo let's add mode options for replayability and enhancing the gameplay experience or nono don't do anything the story takes precedence? It's a tricky subject, and I'd like you all to actually think before posting.

[Deschain]

In my view rebalanced is ghey as hell. Let me list few pros and cons.

PROS:
1. Rebalance doesn't usurp the flow. Black screen, wait and starting from lvl 1...
CONS:

1. Rebalance is confusing. Even if you implement hero reselection (in any form), the crucial thing is that your former team-mates will be at least few confused for a second or two (WTH is Joe doing on their team? When did they got Malt?!?) . This goes double if you don't reselect your hero.
2. Rebalance wastes money. You gave 3000g and 10 factions on that wave? GG now you have to defend against that wave. You spent 10min blasting that Tower? GG now repair that tower.
3. Rebalance could be exploited. Not my best point but it would depend on the implementation of rb option. (I'm paranoid, sue me )

If you/community opt to do rb, my suggestion would be make player reselect from the side he is sent to (Joe was Order and rb to Bane so he gets Bane) at same level and with corresponding amount of factions and gold.

However, the nice thing about this method is that you can't b*tch since you do it to yourself. You have no right to complain if you picked to balance the teams by shoving yourself on the other one. You should be hailed a hero for such nobility, and thus I'd probably give you a gold reward or something.

Yeah but this can be fixed. What I hate about -rm is when some jerk types -rm 30min after the initial -rm and the whole thing just blows up in your face. Add a -no option that will cancel the -rm in same or similar manner a majority of voices passes a -rm option (Technically it should need 50% negative votes instead of 50%+1).

Also if you want to improve the flow of -rm you could make heroes start from the same level as in their previous game (to retain the small edge they had over their opponents on their start) or even start the game at some medium level (less snowballed variant).
Some elements of rebalance could be implemented by comparing the kill/assist/death ratio and using this in calculations when rematching (if it doesn't do so already).

I agree the state -rm is ain't ideal but IMO it is still far superior than rebalance in any form, shape or size.

[Rising_Dusk]

How can you exploit something that's entirely dependent upon other players leaving? What are you going to do, CK the whole enemy team just so you can hop over there? I can't even imagine the benefit of doing such a thing. I agree, it is confusing, but without making the entire thing contrived, that confusion cannot be amended. Whether it wastes money or not isn't the problem anymore, though, since you pick whether to move to the other side or not. If you just spent 3000g and 10f on pushes everywhere, just don't type -rb! It's that easy.

I'm not about to add a half dozen text commands because you dislike the way rm can be said early on and then nudged later, that was the entire reason for such a thing to be designed as it is. And the 'flow of -rm' isn't a problem, as a matter of fact I am quite of the belief that I achieved RM in the only way that isn't retarded. The point of a reMATCH is to restart the MATCH. I am not ever going to let them carry their items/levels/whatever over because quite frankly that isn't what -rm is for. It's to restart the game, to allow you to play multiple games in one, not to allow you to drag on an old game with fresh towers, that's ridiculous.

I don't even know why you think I'm talking about -rm at all. This topic's title, and ergo all content I discussed in the first post, is about a potential -rb. They do different things. -rm restarts the map, -rb would just balance the teams at runtime without restarting the map. They work entirely differently, thus issues with one are nonissues with the other and so forth.

[Deschain]

Yeah I got my moments... I was somewhat under impression rb is going to replace rm.

It is your map, I'm merely suggesting it...When I see a vote I guess that you have a choice (yes and no). Rematch only has yes and not yet. If you like the way it works leave it be.

What I don't get is why are you even care about -rb? IMO -rm is OK as it is.

My belief in rebalance is that it's gay as shit because you get shoved onto a team that you haven't spent any money on and you may not work well at all with.

Agreed. I didn't knew how to count in the fact you are in a way leaving one team for the other while Rematch is controlled by chance (more or less). Doesn't matter much but it does cause some negative tensions.

And the 'flow of -rm' isn't a problem, as a matter of fact I am quite of the belief that I achieved RM in the only way that isn't retarded.

Rematch is fine as it is. It is tabula rasa and it should be only that...
However rebalance doesn't restarts the game in a way Rematch does. Which is what I consider the flow.

Whether it wastes money or not isn't the problem anymore, though, since you pick whether to move to the other side or not. If you just spent 3000g and 10f on pushes everywhere, just don't type -rb! It's that easy.

It's a negative side effect and thus I listed it. You choosing to inflict it on yourself might not seem important but people won't initially realize how much much money and effort they and their team spent on hires and destroying bases.

Bottom line: It gives flow/consistency and in return it negatively affects team play, confuses you and wastes your invested money.

[andriejj]

Would be worth it. At least for some beta-test, to check out how it works, and then - decide.

[Pigger]

As neat of an idea as it seems, and I would enjoy using it occassionally, I feel that it could take away from the game. I mean, here you have two teams balanced around each other, and then suddenly you have a single hero offsetting the balance, causing confusion (I mean, I'm pretty damned used to a devilish looking winged creature attacking the fireball slinging pyromancer and all of a sudden they're both working together!), but at the same time that brings out possibilities of amazingness, and can also lead to different tactics that would not normally be used in a normal match.

As of right now I feel like I should stand neutral until it has been played with, can't knock it til ya try it.

[TheIrishPatriot]

I'd say leave it as is.

[Hell_Tempest]

Leave it.

[assassingao]

I think that -rb should moves that player to another side and grant control of the leaver.

If there was none, then he reselect the hero.

[pandamanar]

personally, I wouldn't mind this function, except I am one of those people who would go postal at the sight of Vela playing tennis with Sozen... Why not, after allowing a -rb, you give the player 100% of his item's worth in gold and faction, and let him repick a hero of the other team with a gold bonus for re-balancing. This would allow for the purchase of items that would be worth their cost for the chosen hero and a little pay back from having to fight against your own spawns that you wasted money on. I wouldn't mind this as long as the heroes of each team aren't mixed...

[Hell_Tempest]

personally, I wouldn't mind this function, except I am one of those people who would go postal at the sight of Vela playing tennis with Sozen... Why not, after allowing a -rb, you give the player 100% of his item's worth in gold and faction, and let him repick a hero of the other team with a gold bonus for re-balancing. This would allow for the purchase of items that would be worth their cost for the chosen hero and a little pay back from having to fight against your own spawns that you wasted money on. I wouldn't mind this as long as the heroes of each team aren't mixed...

Seconded.

[Fulla]

I'll generally always be for more game modes/options.

Rebalance thou I'm not sure about. It has to be the gayest one I've ever come across, its actually the main reason I stopped playing AoM.
However your proposal actually sound pretty good.

I'd recommend perhaps going a little bit further with like:
- Player Joe_Smo types -rb
- Game messsage appears saying, Player Joe_Smoe is offering to rebalance the teams, X votes (-rb) are needed to transfer him.
- If atleast X ppl agree then he goes over to the other side. But if every other player is against it then he can't do it.

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Personally not to keep going on & on about it, but adding an all pick option would just own so much.

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Edit:

I also think a 'sell' leaver Hero option/beacon would be nice, where:
- 50% of his gold + item values is shared out.
- 10% of his experience is shared out.
This way Heroes suddenly arent such a bad thing for your team.

[Oxygen]

Everyone's stuff is too complicated. 95.2% of gold and 47.3% of factions while selling the opposite of the sozen that'll caliga and...

Come on now. The -rb dusk implemented is great. It allows a player to be rebalanced not against his will. I would definitely join a losing team, even just because of the challenge etc. I like it dusk

[UnholySouls]

Like panda, I'm all in for a -rb which would:
1. reselect hero
2. gives 100% buy cost/fac cost of items
3. keeps level

[Rising_Dusk]

For me, it isn't a matter of the implementation, really, it's a matter of whether to force them to repick a hero from the new team or not. It's kind of complicated to make them reselect, but at the same time it's really stupid to let the teams mix. At the same time it'd be really cool to allow teams to mix up like that and allow new synergies and mixes, especially with conditions at your disposal!

I hope you all can see my dilemma.