Arro Kree

This is where all bug reports or hero complaints regarding DoE should be made. Whether you have an issue with balance or an exploit to shed light on, this is the place to put it.
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Oxygen
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by Oxygen » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:18 am

Pigger wrote:What about Heat's AoE and damage increasing per burning unit inside it? Or, instead of it's damage, it makes the burned units' burn deal more damage (essentially the same thing)
Its cool, but the end result is still just a permanent immolation.

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TheDeathstalker
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by TheDeathstalker » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:38 pm

You know, Immolation may not be too bad an idea... (stick with me here)

What if Heat causes any Burn Kree applies to instead deal 20 Magick damage in an AoE around the unit that gets bigger with level? It could be weakened a bit if need be, but the idea of making burn, well... burn, could work. And that way we get a nice way of making burn more powerful without simply saying it does X% additional damage. As to the "what does it do at level one?" bit, we could always make him passively extend burn on units within the aforementioned AoE around himself, or something like that.

... yeah.
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try—it’s dead easy to die,
It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by Rising_Dusk » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:27 pm

The problem isn't that his ability isn't effective, though, which is what everyone seems to be assuming. The problem is twofold. He simply doesn't do enough with conditions and Heat is just too passive - it does it's thing regardless what the player does. Can we not achieve something more interactive than this?
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

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Kurogamon
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by Kurogamon » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:17 pm

Very short cooldown and mana cost active in place of his passive, or even no mana cost abilities might be fun. Something offhand or partly passive like Tristan's. I was thinking something with a slight duration and no interruption on AK's rhythm, but something creative and awesome if used correctly.

So heat maybe could be an active where you suck all the burn off a unit or the units in an area and gain a large effect immolation, or have it so that a targeted unit takes all the burn from surrounding units and gains a large immolation depending on seconds of burn used. If as a passive, it could be like an on attack or on damage where a unit has a chance to do something magical and take some burn from surrounding units (Not all, and a fixed second rate) and gain an immolation that affects self.

Just brainstorming, not arguing or convincing.
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TheDeathstalker
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by TheDeathstalker » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:33 am

Doesn't do enough with other conditions, right... just throwin it out there, but what about going with the +Ruin thing on Fireball direct hits, and then make Heat do the following:

Deals X dps in an area around AK, and any enemy unit within this area is unaffected by any conditions other than burn, but takes additional DPS as if it were suffering burn a number of times equal to the number of conditions they have on them.

Ok, wow, horribly worded there, and probably a shitfail skill, but the idea being within some close range to AK, say a crippled, bleeding, blind, burning unit would take 80 dps, and be otherwise fine.

I dunno, it's so hard to be interactive with a passive. I know it's possible, but with the setup AK has, it's not easy to do...
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try—it’s dead easy to die,
It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

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Oxygen
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by Oxygen » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:30 am

TheDeathstalker wrote:Doesn't do enough with other conditions, right... just throwin it out there, but what about going with the +Ruin thing on Fireball direct hits, and then make Heat do the following:

Deals X dps in an area around AK, and any enemy unit within this area is unaffected by any conditions other than burn, but takes additional DPS as if it were suffering burn a number of times equal to the number of conditions they have on them.

Ok, wow, horribly worded there, and probably a shitfail skill, but the idea being within some close range to AK, say a crippled, bleeding, blind, burning unit would take 80 dps, and be otherwise fine.

I dunno, it's so hard to be interactive with a passive. I know it's possible, but with the setup AK has, it's not easy to do...
Still immolation. Listen, everyone:

Take nearby units, divide this amount by the square root of your current health * number of conditions in a donut 600 around nearby allied towers under 72% hp + the number of items that was sold by the merchants multiplied by their total gold cost + 17 per faction spent * your hero's level * 1/2 movement speed + the amount of time spent blinded log of time spent standing still and deal this amount in damage to nearby units every seconds around arro.

No matter what crazy stupid variable you come up with, DAMAGE IS STILL DAMAGE. The cold, dead truth is that heat, in its current form, doesn't fit a caster's playstyle, or at least, have enough effect such that one would want to integrate it in the way they want to play.

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TheDeathstalker
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by TheDeathstalker » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:00 am

Oxygen wrote:Still immolation. Listen, everyone:
No matter what crazy stupid variable you come up with, DAMAGE IS STILL DAMAGE. The cold, dead truth is that heat, in its current form, doesn't fit a caster's playstyle, or at least, have enough effect such that one would want to integrate it in the way they want to play.
Ok, so we need to start thinking utility here? I mean, there are plenty of clever things to do utility wise, but to be honest, AK's playstyle is pretty solid as it is, and I don't think there is a whole lot of advantage to giving him some utility abilities. Either we make this a more interactive form of just doing damage, or we give him something that would, in all likelihood fundamentally change how he plays, which, admittedly could be a good thing, but it's still not something at the forefront of everyone's mind right now, I think.
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try—it’s dead easy to die,
It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by Rising_Dusk » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:35 am

Oxygen wrote:No matter what crazy stupid variable you come up with, DAMAGE IS STILL DAMAGE. The cold, dead truth is that heat, in its current form, doesn't fit a caster's playstyle, or at least, have enough effect such that one would want to integrate it in the way they want to play.
I use it a lot and build AK around it so I'm really good at hugging enemies, but maybe I'm the only one.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

Flak Maniak
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by Flak Maniak » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:35 am

I'd read this thread a while ago and was meaning to reply... (It doesn't count as threadomancy if it's still on the front page, right?)

Anyway, my proposed changes to Arro Kree are as follows. Some of the ideas come from earlier in this thread.

Fireball would do Physical damage on a direct hit and Magickal damage in its AoE. Direct hit plus AoE would deal as much or more damage as it deals now, but just AoE would deal less.

Heat would deal some damage, but extend Ruin on Burning targets.

Shattered Sky would deal Physical damage, and perhaps do some bonus effect to targets with conditions. For example: Knocks down Ruined targets for 1 second, or knocks down Burning targets, or something... Well, I haven't played Arro much, so I don't know if Shattered Sky works like Rain of Fire, or if each meteor has its own AoE. If it's the former, obviously these would lead to stunlocks.

Anyway, this set of changes would make Heat not just do damage, would make for more condition interaction, make Fireball reward good aim more.

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by Rising_Dusk » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:48 am

Most of this has already been taken care of, I just need to get off my otherwise preoccupied butt and finish up some last touches on the next version before release. I could say "maybe this weekend," but let's face it, "maybe not" is also a viable outcome. It'll get done soon. My semester ends next Wednesday.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

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Oxygen
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by Oxygen » Sat May 01, 2010 9:44 am

Rising_Dusk wrote:Most of this has already been taken care of, I just need to get off my otherwise preoccupied butt and finish up some last touches on the next version before release. I could say "maybe this weekend," but let's face it, "maybe not" is also a viable outcome. It'll get done soon. My semester ends next Wednesday.
Battle.net/wc3 is dead, sadly. :[

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Kurogamon
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by Kurogamon » Sat May 01, 2010 6:56 pm

Oh it's still a little alive. I think people still would want to play DoE.

Although I haven't seen a game hosted in several months.
Can you hear them?

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TheDeathstalker
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by TheDeathstalker » Sun May 02, 2010 1:59 am

Egad... the stars are aligning. Summer, new DoE, and now even Kuro returns from the void. We may just have a good ol' fashioned VZ revival on our hands!
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try—it’s dead easy to die,
It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

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assassingao
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by assassingao » Sun May 02, 2010 5:54 am

Now even VZ's dead?

Hope it's back up on it's feet soon.

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Kurogamon
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Re: Arro Kree

Post by Kurogamon » Sun May 02, 2010 1:57 pm

What I want to see is an entertaining minigame, something that takes >10 mins to play.

Hey maybe I should try making one. Fight with skeletons?
Can you hear them?

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