[C-] Finnar, Arcane Trickster

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andriejj
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[C-] Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by andriejj » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:13 am

Finnar
Arcane Trickster
Intelligence; Hallowed Order.

University of Magic (if that was the name of Arro's and Morgana's school) graduate.

Level 1 Skill:
Banish
  • Makes target unit unbreakably invisible, but muted (or/and maimed, dunno what's better to disable- attack or spells or both) and crippled. Cooldown decreases with levels. (Blind Justice exception, read further)
Level 1 Skill:
Deception
  • Cast. Finnar goes invisible, blinding units around for X seconds. Invisibility lasts up to Y seconds in Z radius from the cast point, it breaks on attack/cast. Invisibility duration is doubled, if there were already blind enemy units around when cast.
Level 1 Skill:
Blind Justice
  • Nova spell. X damage in some fixed AoE around Finnar. If used while being invisible, breaks invisibility (no matter the type of it) and blinds for Y seconds.
Level 6 Ultimate:
Mirage
  • Activable or active. Every X seconds (some fixed, small amount) Finnar generates a copy of himself, dealing Y% damage and receiving Z%. Every time a copy dies, Finnar gains unbreakable (Blind Justice exception) invisibility for W seconds (multi-stack).
Comments: Medivh model (no skin really needed).
It's all about visible/invisible and blindness. But he STILL could use some more integrity :|
Last edited by andriejj on Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:52 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Oxygen
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Re: Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by Oxygen » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:07 pm

This hero is extremely counterproductive.

Fleetness, on its own, counteracts itself. You become invisible at low HP, but the evasion bonus makes it harder for you to become low.

Deception is extremely similar to the phantom lancer's spell in dota. But that doesn't really matter. Instant invisiblity like that is pretty harsh, as it can pretty much save you from any situation. How large would the radius be?

Revelation is probably the worse here though. Your hero is all about invisibility, and yet, it ''bans'' it from the area?!!?! In addition, the spell has no other effect than that, if Blind Justice wasn't skilled, which is totally written not to do in the contest instructions!

Might want to have an extremely serious review!

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andriejj
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Re: Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by andriejj » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:12 pm

Oxy, remember who he fights against, Glasse and Atrius ;P

First spell- this is a protective spell and it would last some longer time, not 15 sec. So it protects with evasion, and, if needed- tries to save the target from dying by making him invisible. First I thought of it as a low cooldown autocast spell, but this way, would be ok for creeps, but imba for heroes :/

About that combo stuff. Look at Fahren Kaa and his spell(dun remember the name) which "substitutes" burn with dps. He has burn applying spells. Does it make him bad? But I want some change in that ultimate, to make it useful in more situations. Got any ideas? :P

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Oxygen
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Re: Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by Oxygen » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:00 pm

andriejj wrote: About that combo stuff. Look at Fahren Kaa and his spell(dun remember the name) which "substitutes" burn with dps. He has burn applying spells. Does it make him bad?
Consuming the burn yields twice as much damage... I don't see how that would be bad. But in your situation, it makes half your spells useless, and what does it give in return?

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andriejj
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Re: Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by andriejj » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:48 pm

Victor has only one damage spell, and is he bad? No. Invisibility stuff is useful, remember Morgana? But like I said- first draft, gonna change it when I have some idea. And you're giving me none.

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Oxygen
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Re: Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by Oxygen » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:56 pm

andriejj wrote:Victor has only one damage spell, and is he bad? No. Invisibility stuff is useful, remember Morgana? But like I said- first draft, gonna change it when I have some idea. And you're giving me none.
Yes, invisiblity is very usefull. BUT YOUR ULTIMATE MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE

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Deschain
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Re: Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by Deschain » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:57 pm

Ok my 2cents:

Fleetness - I don't get this spell. You become invisible and have evasion. Why? Invisibility is the ultimate evasion. Why not just give him breakable invisibility or something similar.

Deception - Ok I don't wanna ruin this but the problem with this decoy spells is that they do too much but do basically nothing. Now think about this. . Add to your deception has a neat little ability called shatter. So when it dies or you decide it can shatter and cause AoE blind (kinda like Goblin Sappers except it causes blind instead of damage). Personally I would keep the invisibility and scratch the dies when breaks or leaves range clause but it's your hero.

Blind Justice - Why would you wanna lose invisibility so vigorously? It could just do what it does. I don't see the point. You could explain this a bit.

Revelation - This is highly counterproductive. His spells revolve around invisibility and you are banning it? Why not instead have a summon (a ward) that will punish the invisible enemies and give great boon to invisible allies? Like invisible units in area of the ward cause burn on touch and enemy units suffer burn while in area.
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andriejj
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Re: Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by andriejj » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:56 am

Deschain, read first skill more carefully. It's a protective spell. It gives evasion, and WHEN the target is droppped below 10-15% hp, THEN it becomes invsible. But like I said- it would be cool for creep support as short cd and low mana autocast buff, but imba for heroes. And I see no way to limit that. Unless Dusk finds a way to make this spell have different cooldown when cast on a creep and different when cast on a hero :D I think I'll ask in discussion topic >_>

About decoy spell- Morgana had delayed invisibleness, was it useless? No. And that decoy could be a good creep delayer, if it absorbed like 50% damage. And a runaway or stalk spell- you can either use it to escape or lurk in the area and strike by surprise.

About ultimate- ye, I think I'll change it. But what I want here, are effects between invisibility and visibility. So you can use spells both ways. You can go invisible with that decoy thing, then use that nova spell, or inverted- you want to damage the enemy before you run away, so first nova, then- decoy.

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del_diablo
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Re: Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by del_diablo » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:28 am

And you critic some heroes on the other forums? Shame on ya :P

Well........... i wonder if i even want to play with this hero ingame............. seriusly................ i think its bartly boring :evil:
Dont challange the lazy, he are godlike serius.
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andriejj
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Re: Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by andriejj » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:01 pm

Diablo, when I critisize, I usually say what would I change or give some ideas. You just said "boring, sucks". That tells me nothing. Ye, I know the ultimate sucks, I want to change it. I'd like it to participate in that visible - invisible thing, so if you have some idea, post, but if the only thing you have to say is that this hero sucks, then don't post anything at all.

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Oxygen
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Re: Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by Oxygen » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:04 pm

del_diablo wrote:And you critic some heroes on the other forums? Shame on ya :P

Well........... i wonder if i even want to play with this hero ingame............. seriusly................ i think its bartly boring :evil:
stfu.

that's the worse critic that ever had the honor to vomit into my eyes

-----

Is it me or the hero really has no ways of dealing damage? 3 of your spells are all around messing with invisibility, but what's the result? Sure, you can't die, but so can't your opponent

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andriejj
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Re: Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by andriejj » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:58 am

Ok, changed him. I'm still not satisfied with ultimate, I'm thinking of some change for Deception, but still 3 days left. Suggestions and opinions would be appreciated :D

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andriejj
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Re: Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by andriejj » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:12 am

Ok, changed Deception (no more decoy) and FINALLY, figured out a satisfatory ultimate. But I'm still thinking of linking blindness and invisiblity stuff more, making him more integral. Any ideas?

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Finnar, Arcane Trickster

Post by Rising_Dusk » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:52 pm

Review:
  • General Pros:
    - Nifty first skill
  • General Cons:
    - Boring invisibility applications
    - Too much blind, too little use for it
    - Copy ult is relatively unexciting
  • Final Thoughts:
    - First skill was good, went downhill from there
    - Needs to be built around the first skill a bit more, you need to be creative
    - Ult and other skills make virtually no sense with him
    - His style is totally haphazard
  • End Grade:
    C-
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